TNT Bonus: Gendered God, Intelligent Design and Kind Conservatism

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6 week online class w/ Peter Rollins

Last week’s  2013 Year In Review show took longer than expected – so we had to break off this conversation into its own episode.

First, Bo talks with Tripp about a ‘Kind’ of Conservatism.

Then Micky and Bo chat about gendering God. You may want to check out Bo’s old post on Calling God She and She Who Is Not as well as Elizabeth Johnson’s Barrel-Aged podcast about the Quest for the Living God.

At minute 30, Tripp returns with some reflections on the Intelligent Design interview from last year that got such a big … shall we say … response from listeners.
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9 comments
willhouk
willhouk

The discussion with Mickey about the gendered God was great. Especially the part about the song. When I think of the lyrics as, "She wraps herself in light, and darkness tries to hide, and trembles at her voice trembles at her voice." Initially the idea of something trembling at a woman gives me the image of some mystical witch figure. It's so weird. I think that speaks volumes of gender issues and brings to light the problem of assigning a gender to God. My example is anecdotal, I concede that, but I would bet that a lot of Christians would struggle with the gender reassignment.

Mickey (I hope I'm spelling that right) had a great point that if we are made in God's image, and God is a man where does that leave women, is a great point. As a man, I never thought of that. Great stuff guys.

Richard Head 7
Richard Head 7

This was this he funniest and saddest piece of logic I've ever heard. Absolutely NO justification was given concerning the "Gendered God" except, "I'm a woman in the 21st centur. Stop oppressing me with God as Father crap! I don't like it. It should be changed for me & my friends."

And Bo! Your entire soliloquy about" Kind Conservativism " sounds *exactly* like the passive aggressive caricatures u& Trip spew over & over & over with "kind sarcasm" (ie passive aggression) that amounts to nothing more than identity politics.

Every one of your podcasts are LONG on attitude & short on argument; Hence it caters to the typical "disgruntled Christian" with unresolved hurt, pain & brokenness who finds momentary relief from ur stupidity that unconsciously empowers them to harbor bitterness, resentment, blame, denial (of their own heart-pain) and then you label it "authenticity" & "keeping it real!"

The unresolved pain & hurt in ur own hearts is painfully evident every podcast I hear & pray that someday you will learn to own ur own pain (NOT resentment & bitterness!) & find healing & wholeness from within, or else u give ur power away in hopes of changing everything around you (that causes YOU pain) & passive aggressive caricatures of conservatives is ALL u can talk about...

Praying...

Jason Mnrqz
Jason Mnrqz

While listening I wondered if by avoiding any/all gendered articles when naming God I am equally negating the use of the feminine? I think I'm going to try and utilize both she and he in my next Sunday School lesson and see what happens.


Great stuff. I always love it when Elder Jones is on the 'cast!

BoSanders
BoSanders moderator

@Richard Head 7 I fear there has been a horrible misunderstanding.   Actually 3 


1) Tripp and I are not hurt. We both grew up in pastor homes and love being pastors. We are full of love and minister in joy.  We have both felt honored to be able to pursue our passion - with this podcast and with PhD work. 


This whole cockamamie thing about pain and hurt is 100% a fabrication of your imagination. I fear that you may be projecting ... especially after your 2nd post above. 


2) This is not a work of logic. It is a Theology Nerd Throwdown. We are not building a case for which we need to provide evidence. We 'hit the ground running' as they say.   If you care for the reasoning you can look at the links i provided in the show notes 


3) The gendered god discussion is not 'because it makes me feel bad'. It is a matter of semiotics.  "He" is not ontologically representative of the totality of god's existence. It is inadequate and that it is indisputable. 


-Bo 


p.s. you may want to switch to decaf :)  You're second post makes me think that you a likely a) projecting your hurt onto us  b) not entirely over your hurt.   

Richard Head 7
Richard Head 7

Alright Broski.

Decaf it is.

Sorry for the projections.

Peace

BoSanders
BoSanders moderator

@Richard Head 7 Couple of thoughts: 

- you might check out the book  "Argument Culture" by Deborah Tannen It is only 1 cent on Amazon right now ... I would even buy it for and have it shipped to your house :) I think it could help you a lot with your basic framing of ideas and this conversation. 

You come in with some pretty heavy presuppositions and then assume that I am interested in 'firing away' or picking you a part. It's a weird tone. 


#2) Look, I am sorry that your friends who have been hurt are not 'feeling' their pain / brokeness in your opinion. Lots of people have been hurt by fundy religion and different people handle it different ways. without knowing them ... I can't speak to that


C) That is not what you are hearing from Tripp and me. I haven't been hurt by fundamentalism. I had a wonderful run as an Evangelical pastor and am now pursuing a PhD so that I can help train the next generation for ministry. I am a hope-filled joyous Jesus lover with a deep abiding presence of God's spirit and power. I am an Emergent thinker and a reflective practitioner. 

I am not hurt.  I am healthy and hopeful.   Whatever you are reading between the lines is on your end. 

I am not a conservative. I believe the Gospel to be inherently progressive - if we are disagreeing ... that is fine. There are lots of christian radio stations I'm sure you would be happy to tune into ;p 


finally - see my first point.   


I hope that brings some clarity. I am not expecting that we will agree but I do hope that the folks who pointed you to the show find some healing and health for themselves 


-Bo 

Richard Head 7
Richard Head 7

And check mate! :-)

Bo,

To be perfectly honest I think you & Trip are incredibly smart and intelligent w Lots of Theo training! My concern is that the friends who told me about you are all the same "disgruntled Xians" from ConservativISM who frequently visit the house of sarcasm instead of genuinely *feeling* their feelings of brokenness. It's a... cuter version of self-pity ="I'm hurt, but scared to reveal my true vulnerability bc that has hurt me in the past; sarcasm is an attempt to manipulate others into taking responsibility for *MY* pain. That is, I still want to be valued, but w others doing all the work."

Forgive me, & this could be the moche latte speaking, but this is the same posturing I hear from u guys over & over & over & over & over & over, just w a diff title or gripe but the same old, tired caricatures of fundamentalists. I admit, u gain a lot of laughs from those like you, but it usually doesn't change many hearts.

In fact, as stated above, u give ur power away when ur healing & wholeness is contingent upon changing everything around u for emotional equilibrium. Your focus is ALWAYS on the outside (unless, of course, it's bitterness & resentment u label "authenticity") peppered w sarcastic/self-pity remarks that unconsciously leaves all the people u hope to help, stuck. Stuck in their own brokenness, unwilling to *feel* their feelings apart from sarcastic remarks that *hint at/talk* about pain, but afraid to truly feel it.

That's a LOT of sarcastic material for u guys, but I hope that came out right. I've been Where u are & feel ur pain. You have a wonderful platform & pray u use to bring about more holistic & lasting change.

Fire away :-)

BoSanders
BoSanders moderator

@Richard Head 7 I'm gunna give you 'Comment of the Month for January 2014'  for that :) 


Well done sir.  Very gracious. Very irenic. ... thank you.  See you next week! 

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