Marcus Borg, Tony Jones, & the Resurrection w/ Jonnie #NerdOut

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Jonnie joined my in the HBC Headquarters in Redondo Beach. In the podcast we start discussing the resurrection exchange between Marcus Borg & Tony Jones [aka ToJo] & then end up on the necessity of a physical resurrection, atonement, eschatology, evangelical’s Easter concern, and Pannenberg.

Attempting to fill in for the BoDaddy is a difficult task but Jonnie did a pretty good job.  I think I will let him back on the TNT w/ the BoDaddy so Bo can make sure we actually stay on topic.  You will notice I actually start a couple lists of theological options and then get distracted by Pannenberg and John Cobb.  The BoDaddy is a pro and knows to limit such theological temptations.  During the podcast we drank the Burning Bush IPA and gave a shout out to 350.org for climate change info.

In the podcast we discuss these books:

1) Bodies and Souls, or Spirited Bodies? & Beyond Liberalism and Fundamentalism by  Nancey Murphey

2) Jesus: God & Man by Wolfhart Pannenberg

3) Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time by Marcus Borg

4) Old Testament Theology by Gerhard von Rad

 

Come Join Tripp & Jonnie for the Conference, Live Podcast and Craft Brewery Fun.

Come Join Tripp & Jonnie for the Conference and Craft Brewery Fun.

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If you enjoy all the Homebrewed Christianity Podcasts then consider sending us a donation via paypal. We got bandwidth to buy & audiological goodness to dispense. We will also get a percentage of your Amazon purchase through this link OR you can send us a few and get us a pint!

8 comments
JR Buckley
JR Buckley

I really enjoyed this episode. I don't have a degree in theology, but am highly interested in the topic, especially Christology, eschatology, and resurrection/new creation theories. Some of the terminology and references go over my head because I'm not as much of a nerd as I'd like to be, but I've added Pannenberg to my Christmas list as a result of this conversation. Thanks for this podcast, guys.

willhouk
willhouk

I've been watching some You Tube clips of Marcus Borg lately and I came across a debate between he and William Lane Craig. It's from awhile ago, but I think in watching this I understand Tripp's point better. They are talking past each other because they have totally different narratives of how to approach Scripture. I'm not saying that Tony Jones completely agrees with William Lane Craig, but if you watch it you can see how they get nowhere. It seems to me that Marcus and Tony don't interpret things the same way, and that is the root of the disagreement. 


Is that what you were trying to say Tripp?

willhouk
willhouk

I'm enjoying the conversation with my kids and Jonnie says, "shit doesn't matter unless it's matter." And my 3 year old goes, "shit...matter." Oh man, good times. 

Jesse Turri
Jesse Turri

Such a great conversation here, guys. Love the resurrection talk. I'm right on board with @Tripp Fuller when he goes Pauline in the sense that, for Paul, the resurrection is about transformation. 


@JBoRussell , you mentioned speculative realism (SR) and process thought at the end of the show there. I've heard speculative realism coming up lately, can you elaborate more on your thoughts there? What is (SR)? Were you saying process is a form of SR?

Thanks again for this show.

JeffStraka
JeffStraka

As a post-theist humanist/naturalist, I don't need any kind of resurrection/material/flesh-affirmation to tell me how to treat others and the environment. Once you come to understand how amazing and fortunate it is that we have come into existence, that THIS life is all there is for us and all creatures, and how precious that is, and how we want to be sure others in the future will have that same opportunity to be aware of the universe, that is motivation enough. 

Tony Jones
Tony Jones

I love when I'm the topic of nerds with their geeks out.

Jonnie Russell
Jonnie Russell

@Jesse Turri @Tripp Fuller @JBoRussellHey Jesse! Glad you liked it.  It was a fun one for sure. So, when I was called process thought the ultra speculative realism (or something to that effect), I was actually more playing on how 'speculative' some aspects of process thought are (panexperientialism, etc.). So, I wasn't really aligning the two. There are interesting coherences between some elements of Whitehead's thought and what might broadly be called different streams of speculative realist thought (a term hotly debated as to whether there is even a coherent enough meaning around it to use for the group of thinkers usually put under it's umbrella). Steven Shaviro comes to mind, who write a book on Deleuze and Whitehead and some others (I think Bo Eberle has read it...and everything). Also Jane Bennett has a really interesting book called Vibrant Matter that used some process stuff I believe.  Also, Tripp's buddy Leon Niemoczynski uses Whitehead brewed with some American pragmatism/ecstaic naturalism to do some intersting stuff. He bolgged at HBC once So....yeah their is some points of coherence, but I think some of the main thinkers in this area (Brassier, Meillassoux) who are not interesting in that kind of 'speculation' and think a much colder, less animated material world. Oh, and Bruno Latour likes Whitehead (he's not a specualtive realist, but is used by many).

So yeah, I was riffing on the speculative ways of process folks, but their is some connection to some variants of SR thought.

word!

Jesse Turri
Jesse Turri

Thanks for the reply @Jonnie Russell, and for the clarification on SR. Like I said, that term has been popping up for me lately. Thanks for the book tips too.

So I guess a theoretical physicist could be considered a speculative realist?


Anyway, I hope you two continue the conversation. I'd like to hear more about your Nancy Murphy monist influence and how that affects your conception of bodily resurrection. I like Eastman's points (also Whiteheadian) about accepting duality in nature without embracing dualism. This was my response to Tony on his blog when I sensed his (rightful) aversion to Cartesian dualism. Paul's sarx/soma distinction does not necessarily have to be taken as dualism.

Here's the Eastman write-up if you're interested: http://www.csus.edu/cpns/library/te_DWD.pdf

Trackbacks

  1. […] I appreciate my classmate Shane Akerman's take on the resurrection in this post, and it was timely for me having just listened to a Homebrewed Christianity "Theology Nerd Throwdown" podcast episode on the same subject. Tripp Fuller and Jonnie Russell talk about two opposing accounts of the resurrection that resurfaced in a blogosphere debate between Tony Jones and Marcus Borg, as well what each of them might be missing. You can listen to the full episode here. […]