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You are here: Home / engaging / The Problem: with Peter Rollins

The Problem: with Peter Rollins

August 1, 2012 by Bo Sanders 18 Comments

I love Peter Rollins. I have even stuck up for him on several occasions (I like both Peter Rollins).

In fact, there is no author I am more prone to give my nieces and nephews than Peter Rollins. I am a fan and a promoter.

That is why I’m always to intrigued by those who feel the need to criticize, critique and call into question the motives and message of the young Irish poet-philosopher. Here is what I have begun to say:

Its not that there is a problem WITH Peter Rollins. However, there IS a problem and we need to address it with what Peter Rollins provides.

Let me attempt to clear up a couple of critiques that I hear about Pete Rollins – they seem to center on the fact that he is one step ahead of most folks … and that makes it seem like he is up to something.

He’s just trying to sell books: He is an author. He is trying to sell books. But do you think that this little slice of the christian publishing industry that he would appeal to is lucrative? There is far more money to be made outside the faith for a guy this smart and likable. He is a friend of the church and he helps people’s faith. Keep in mind that he speaks at churches! If he wanted to use his considerable smarts to simply sell books – this would not what he wrote about.

He’s importing Post-Modern stuff into the church: in the book ‘The Postmodern God’, Graham Ward was explaining his inclusion of a certain author by outlining the sensibilities that overlapped in four areas:

  • an inescapable recognition of the linguistic role in formation of thought and experience
  • overturning of traditional hierarchies
  • shattering of meta-narratives
  • concern with otherness

These four things seem to me to be vital areas for people of faith and the church to engage in for the 21st century. Pete is not pulling the wool over people’s eyes with this post-modern stuff: he is asking them to consider that they may have pulled the wool over their eyes in some way. That is not being tricky – that is being the best kind of mischievous.

People just like his Accent/Stories/Language: Yes he has a beautiful Irish lilt. Yes he tells amazing stories. Yes he is very engaging. But if you think that this is a personality-package-presentation thing, I am afraid that you are missing the radical nature of his content. Certainly the presentation doesn’t hurt anything – as a delivery system. The drug, however, is potent and I don’t want to confuse the content because of the form.

Here what Rollins bring to the table (as I said yesterday):

Part of what I love about Rollins’ project is that he helps expose the invisible or unstated second sentence so that we, as communities of faith, are not assuming something that should not be assumed – and then allowing us to state it appropriately so that everyone is on the same page and it is not invisible or hidden.

Admittedly, the danger is that it might take some of the magic out of it. I acknowledge that. The tradeoff, however,  is that we can be honest about what is really going on and move forward A) together and B) with integrity. I think that the tradeoff is worth the risk even if we do lose some  of the magic.

Now, having said all of that – I DO think that there is a problem with Peter Rollins, but it has nothing to do with any of those things.

My problem with Peter Rollins has to do with the medium and message. I think that he is all too right all too much of the time when he critiques TV preachers, evangelists and celebrities. I had an epiphany the other night as a I was standing there watching him watching him talk.
We were  in the building where I work, which is getting ready to launch a new gathering this Fall (called the loft). Part of the Bass-Rollins event was to help our folks catch the vision and see the need for such an endeavor. The whole things is being conceived of a conversation: the way the room is designed, the staffing, the facilitation, etc.
So when I was listening to Pete the other night make some astoundingly insightful points about televangelist and revival preachers I realized the importance of the medium and the message. Here was one guy, standing up front, we were all facing him and listening to him – and he was a little bit smarter/further ahead than we were. It’s still the problem of the one person at the front of the room with all the ideas/answers.
Now, that is not Pete’s fault. He is utilizing the medium to get out the message. But it did convict me that the architecture, furniture, and facilitation need to be different so that the medium matches the message if what I am concerned about is community and authenticity.

In the end, I am grateful for Rollins. I appreciate what he brings to the table. I admire his project and think that we need it even more than we know – which is kind of his point.

 

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Filed Under: engaging, latest, living, thinking Tagged With: a/theist, accent, atheism, book, books, church, expose, faith, God, Irish, peter rollins, philosophy, postmodern, problem, talk
17 comments
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stephaniedrury
stephaniedrury 5pts

He taught my kids a magic trick last night and then my daughter drew him a picture of a toilet which he politely admired. He's a fine human.

JessePals
JessePals 5pts

Can anyone point me to the subject of 'Evangelism as listening'? Does Rollins speak to this on a podcast? I'm doing some work on this right now and would love to compare epistemologies. Thanks!

kenalto9
kenalto9 5pts

at the end of your post, Bo, you say the problem is to do with the medium and the message - one guy at the front of the room with the answers. I haven't read Rollins' books, but I am intrigued by what I have heard of his projects when he has been on the podcast. I don't think his message is that he has all the answers - so is he not simply using the medium your group has already invested in to bring you a different message than you usually get?

 

like tripp, I can be easily swayed by sweet accents, so Pete jumps to the head of the line, but I love the way he tells of evangelizing by going out and listening to other churches - listening not preaching - that's a different message

 

that is the first example that leaps to mind of his turning our standard practices on their head, and he is absolutely right when he tells us to realize every bush is burning ...thanks be to God

BoSanders
BoSanders moderator 5pts

 @kenalto9  I 100% agree with all of your points about Peter Rollins except one. 

Sweet accent - check.

every bush is burning - check.

Pete at the head of the line - check. 

Evangelism as listening - double check. 

 

But listen, when you are in the room and he is standing up front and he is doing all the talking and people are really hanging on every word (he is SO good) and they are really being impacted by what he is saying (and they REALLY are) ... then whether he says "I have all the answers" or not - that is how he is being engaged/ interacted.  

Unfortunately,  this is how the medium-message thing works! That is the nature of the beast. 

 

If I write a book as a solo author about community and you read it alone in your study ... the medium and message are somewhat disconnected.  My point with Pete is that WE have a problem in that unless we intentionally account for or counteract the medium, it is as powerful (even as a subtext) as the message that comes through the mic. 

Yes, Rollins content is amazing and innovative - but my point is that if the medium is the same as the TV preachers - then a second message (outside the content) is also communicated. 

 

-Bo 

theimageoffish
theimageoffish 5pts

 @BoSanders , you've once again prompted a response out of me on things from this post. Here it is: http://theimageoffish.com/2012/08/06/pete-his-problem/

BoSanders
BoSanders moderator 5pts

 @theimageoffish loved it.  Just loved it.   -Bo 

ajwoods
ajwoods 5pts

Bo, 

I agree that one can dig out a 'foundation stone' without that becoming a foundation stone.  I do think one can critique meta-narratives without at the same time creating a meta-narrative.  However, I particularly had Ward in mind who (like many "post-modern" thinkers) tends to critique the meta-narratives of modernity which is itself in fact a big fat (gloss) meta-narrative about modernity.  I'm particularly thinking of his introduction in The Blackwell Companion to Postmodern Theology.

ajwoods
ajwoods 5pts

a bit off topic, but is not the shattering of Meta-narratives itself a meta-narrative?

BoSanders
BoSanders moderator 5pts

 @ajwoods Not exactly :)  we will want to be careful of surface level understandings of things.  

That would be like saying 'Isn't being critical of Utopian-ism not in itself Utopian?'  or 'Isn't pointing out that something is racist not in itself racist?'  It doesn't work that way. 

 

Incredulity toward meta-narratives is being allergic to big-stories that explain everything. One can turn toward (and live into) local stories without those become meta. SO the answer to your question is 'no'.  One can dig out a 'foundation stone' without that becoming a foundation stone. 

 

Check out the original Lyotard: the report of knowledge if you want to pursue it http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~mhalber/Research/Paper/pci-lyotard.html 

 

Or check out chapter of 3 of "Whose afraid of Postmodernity" by Smith for a christian engagement. http://www.amazon.com/Whos-Afraid-Postmodernism-Foucault-Postmodern/dp/080102918X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1344020225&sr=8-1&keywords=who%27s+afraid+of+postmodernism

 

does that make sense?  I would love to hear back from you :)  -Bo 

matteo1967
matteo1967 5pts

@BoSanders @ajwoods Bo, this makes sense. It all depends on whose meta-narrative you're examining and critiquing. It seems that the Tower of Babel still stands.

Travis Mamone
Travis Mamone 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Reading "How (Not) To Speak Of God" right now. As someone who struggles a lot with doubt, Rollins is like a proverbial breath of fresh air.

matteo1967
matteo1967 5pts

I recently watched Peter Rollins in an interview on a show called Inner Compass which I think is produced through Calvin College. What he articulated during the show, and what he articulated in the recent HBC podcast, I'm on board with, but I am left with is the question of what is the practical application of his theology in the world both here in the Western pluralistic world where diverse beliefs are tolerated and the conversation is easy enough to have despite it being grounded in academia, as well as in other parts of the world where people are killed for what they believe in. Will this theology fly in places which this tradition of ours is experiencing a growth that seems to surpass any notion of "belief" in this country, or those followers of the tradition which exist under totalitarian governments, or non-Christian governments where the church is a minority? I know that he doesn't consider himself a leader and hopefully he won't fall into the same trap that Rob Bell fell into (I doubt that) with having to go to a church he won't name in public out of fear that he will be noticed (should I take that recent story about Bell seriously?). I live in NYC where performance art and street theater is ignored. What application can or should or will have outside to those other people who don't show up at his events or who buy his book? 

nbpendley
nbpendley 5pts

I love that you are putting so much thought into the loft project and can see the value that it can have - spectator to player - It's something that I want to be involved in from half a country away as my little tribe work to create something similar.

 

I don't know if I always agree with Rollins but I can say that he always gets me thinking and talking about things I generally take as the norm and really shouldn't.   Of course, it would be much easier if he just gave us 5 principles to live by and 5 things to never do - he would be wildly popular and sell billions of books.  But Jesus doesn't seem to give is the black and white, I think it's because life is messy and the right answer for me isn't necessarily the right answer for you - I'm sure there is a thread/principal in there that actually connects (Zachus gave 1/2 of his wealth and seemed to be "good" but the rich young ruler needed to give all of his stuff away to be "good" - this makes it difficult to set a rule to make everyone "good").  

 

If my goal was to win or be right (as I perceive to be the goal in most appologetics) then Peter Rollins would drive me mad.  But since my goal is to live out my faith in Jesus I love that he attacks my sacred cows (ie. the church is a crack house) and helps to to see there might be a better way to live.

 

Thanks Bo!

BoSanders
BoSanders moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @nbpendley I am so glad that you took the time to write in! I really liked what you had to say - the apologetics line was a really clever too ;)   Great to trade notes with somebody else on the ground.  

 

-Bo 

JanG
JanG 5pts

Two questions: 1) Which use of meta- goes with the "shattering of meta-narratives"?  and 2)how would you switch architecture,  room arrangement, etc., to put the speaker into another kind of medium?  What would it look like and do for the message? 

 

(A bit of the problem is our general comfort about placing The Speaker in front, and the rest of us metaphorically, if not physically, at his feet.  The tongue is gently in cheek, BTW....)

BoSanders
BoSanders moderator 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@JanG

Two Responses :)

1) the phrase comes from Lyotard's  address "Postmodern Condition"  where he put forward that legitimation in the Enlightment was tied to what he calls meta-narratives, or grand narratives. Meta-narratives are total philosophies of history.  here is a good like http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~mhalber/Research/Paper/pci-lyotard.html 

2) We actually have put a lot into this already. Just two examples: By setting the room 'in the round' there is no 'front' and 'back'. We have also designed the talking portion to be not primarily a presentation of ideas but a facilitation of contributions. It will take some practice and tweaking but Solomon's Porch (in Minnesota) has led the way on this and we are attempting to take it one step further. 

 

another quick example is 'point source'. Usually the audio speakers are coming from the same direction as the human speaker. Our ears are used to getting audio from the same place as the visual. By re-orienting (or dis-orienting) and going with more of a home theatre speaker setup, we hope to immerse people IN the environment.  Lots of little things ... but we hope that they add up!   -Bo 

 

Peter Sander
Peter Sander 5pts

LOL, "the problem with Peter Rollins" | that captured my attention

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