• Home
  • About
  • Podcast Archive
  • Subscribe (RSS)
  • Subscribe (iTunes)
  • Deacons
  • Live Events
  • Advertise With Us

Homebrewed Christianity

Equipping grassroots theologians for creative thinking, engaging, and living.

Claremont School of Theology

You are here: Home / thinking / bible stuff / Why didn’t God tell me? The Minority Report

Why didn’t God tell me? The Minority Report

May 31, 2012 by Bo Sanders 47 Comments

I’m passing this work on to you, my son Timothy. The prophetic word that was directed to you prepared us for this. All those prayers are coming together now so you will do this well, fearless in your struggle, keeping a firm grip on your faith and on yourself.  - 1 Timothy 1:18 (Message)

 Do not quench the Spirit.  Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test them all; hold on to what is good
- 1 Thessalonians 5: 19-21 

 

 I was writing a letter to a friend the other morning about a devastating development in her family. I didn’t get to finish the letter so I put it on hold. A couple of days later I was watching the film The Minority Report (2002 with Tom Cruise) and had an epiphany.

In the film, Cruise’s character kidnaps a women who has cognitive abilities (pre-cog) to anticipate and ‘see’ the future. At one point he is smuggling her through a mall and she says to him “The women in the brown sweater will recognize you” just seconds before it happens. Then she stops another women (a stranger) and warns her, “He knows – don’t go home.”

It was jarring to me because that is how many people wish that God worked. I come from a charismatic background and in the past I have participated ‘prophetic words’ where secrets were revealed and the hidden was brought out into the light. I always enjoyed those unique occasions where something like this occurred. An openness to God was my general posture … but I was never quite comfortable with forming lines at the alter after every service with people lining up every week to ‘hear from God’. That seemed too forced, or too rote or too presumptuous. 

I have talked before about my progressive take on pentecostal stuff (after the Leif Hetland interview) and getting my mind around miracles. But personal prophecy seems to be an even bigger issue. For those who run in charismatic circles, words of personal prophecy (or ‘reading someone’s mail’) are something that they come to lean on. That is what makes me so nervous.

Let me be clear: I take the passages in the Bible where Jesus talks about hearing the ‘voice’ of the Father very seriously. I have taught hundreds of folks how to ‘listen to God’ in the past. I am neither apologizing for that nor am I explaining it away.
What I am wanting to address is when people

  1. expect it
  2. come to rely on it
  3. abandon other ways of ‘knowing’ because of a dependance on it.

I’m not talking about folks who pray about trivial stuff like prime parking spots or who try to discern which color to paint their fingernails (both are common). I am talking about real people who have said  sentences like the following over the past decade of ministry:

  • Why didn’t God tell me it was cancer?
  • Why didn’t God warn us not to let her take the car?
  • Why didn’t God alert us our that child was being abused?
  • Why didn’t God direct us and help us find the body?
  • Why didn’t God tell me that my spouse was cheating?
  • Why didn’t God expose the treasurer’s embezzling?
  • Why didn’t God say the Doctor’s diagnosis was wrong?

I am not making these up. These are real sentences I have been asked. (and I have many more examples)

I want to say two things:

That is not how God works. It’s just not. Look, I get the power of personal prophecy! I have called out things that I wouldn’t know in my own capability. I am not a doubter. I am just saying that if we come to rely on this way of knowing we could really endanger ourselves and those around us. We need accountability with our church’s finances because we can’t trust that the Holy Spirit would tell us if something was up.

Process has given me a framework to explain how this kind of prophecy works. I don’t want to quench the Spirit, or hold prophecy with contempt, or lose what is good and explain away some of the miraculous stuff I have seen over the years. I know that some will dispute that personal prophecy is what is meant when the New Testament speaks of prophecy – and it is illustrative to my about the contemporary church that many have NO frame of reference for this activity (it seems like voodoo to them) and yet for others it is their MAIN connection to God and they know of no other type of definition for prophecy.

Tomorrow I will post ‘The Process of Prophecy’ – but for now I just wanted to say that The Minority Report is fiction. That is not how God works. Yes, I think it is cool that we can know stuff we normally don’t have access to. BUT we have to be really careful that we don’t turn off other systems of navigation because we like playing with this one. People are getting hurt (by others) and are discouraged with God because we are playing with a toy that was never meant to be a real steering wheel or compass.

Personal prophecy is not a guide to life. It can be a sign (like in the Gospel of John) that points to a greater level of trust and awareness and creates a desire. However, it can not be our main go-to mechanism for making our way in the world. Prophetic words need to be integrated into a web-of-meaning that incorporates scripture, community, and reason. 

Why didn’t God tell you? Because that is not how God designed it to work.

_______

if you have never encountered this type of thing before: check out this instructive blog about maximizing the impact your prophetic word.

Then you may want to check out my post “what has changed since I was your pastor”.

  • Share on Facebook.
  • Share on Twitter.
Filed Under: bible stuff, engaging, latest, thinking Tagged With: Bethel, Bill Johnson, book, books, Charismatic, God, Holy Spirit, jesus, Leif Hetland, ministry, Pentecost, Pentecostal, prayer, prophecy, Prophetic, reading mail, secret, word
46 comments
  Livefyre
  • Get Livefyre
  • FAQ
Sign in
+ Follow
Post comment
 
Link
Newest | Oldest
ericknac
ericknac 5pts

Just my opinion, but I think the whole misunderstanding is cleared up if we read the last sentence of the second to last paragraph "Prophetic words need to be integrated into a web-of-meaning that incorporates scripture, community, and reason." "Integrated" means they are one part of a healthy relationship with God. Definitely not the main part, but they can at times be a important part. Paul himself said in 1 Corinthians, we "we know in part and prophesy in part" and  "now we see in a mirror dimly" i.e. we do not know or see things clearly.

 

That is the whole point of the post. Bo is not denying that sometimes God does break in and give a very personal word for a very personal situation. BUT personal prophecy cannot be your daily "what next." It cannot be expected to take the place of "scripture, community, and reason." Or to say it another way, read your Bible, weigh what others are saying to you in relationship (people see you better than you see yourself sometimes), and THIMK!

Peace.

BoSanders
BoSanders moderator 5pts

 @ericknac You are 100% right!  That is my point ;) ""Prophetic words need to be integrated into a web-of-meaning that incorporates scripture, community, and reason."

 

I hold that prophecy is simply the thing that all humans do to 'read' someone, discern and intuit - that is then amplified by the presence of Holy Spirit - and specifically within constructed expectations (of a worship service or spiritual counseling). 

 

thanks for the helpful note!  -Bo 

ericknac
ericknac 5pts

 @BoSanders No problem...it just seemed everyone was talking past the point you had already  made.

 

Also, "There is no such thing as the super-natural. God's work is the most natural thing in the world." is one of those things that will be repeated. Great thought...was that "your" thought or super-naturally implanted in your brain by God? ;-)

Peace

helapingsten
helapingsten 5pts

@elsander Nu har jag skrivit några kommentarer till inlägget om varför jag inte håller med om det. http://t.co/sNsY8nYd

elsander
elsander 5pts

@helapingsten Bra att du gav dig in i samtalet, jag lutar åt Bo:s håll i det här.

helapingsten
helapingsten 5pts

@elsander Han kan dock inte ge ett enda exempel på Bibliskt stöd för hans teori. Kan du det?

elsander
elsander 5pts

@helapingsten Jag håller med dig säger bara att det inte finns någon automatik i det här.

helapingsten
helapingsten 5pts

@elsander Vi hör inte allt för Riket har inte brutit igenom fullständigt. Men vi ska sträva efter profetia framför allt och lyssna skarpare

helapingsten
helapingsten 5pts

@elsander Återigen, vad finns det för stöd i Bibeln för detta? Jesus gjorde endast det Fadern sa åt Honom. Vi ska leva som Honom.

elsander
elsander 5pts

@dreadnallen Bra exempel, eller Estonia @helapingsten

dreadnallen
dreadnallen 5pts

@elsander @helapingsten Ett ord: Tsunamin?

elsander
elsander 5pts

@helapingsten Visst Gud varnar ibland vissa men det är verkligen ingen automatik i det. Eller?

elsander
elsander 5pts

@helapingsten och visst är det konstigt att gud leder en del till en kundvagn med en femma i medan andra inte varnas för riktiga saker?

elsander
elsander 5pts

@helapingsten Han säger att det händer men inte så ofta som man påstår i vissa kretsar.

helapingsten
helapingsten 5pts

@elsander Gud varnar flera gånger i Bibeln för livsfara. Varför säger då Bo att Gud inte ägnar sig åt att varna för bilolyckor?

helapingsten
helapingsten 5pts

@elsander Man kan exegetiskt visa att Gud inte talar om gröt, men inte att Han ej skulle tala om de saker Bo listar upp.

helapingsten
helapingsten 5pts

@elsander Nej, det artikeln påstår: att Gud inte berättar om framtida bilolyckor, barnmisshandel etc för att "He doesn't do that".

elsander
elsander 5pts

@helapingsten Där håller jag med, Minns ett par som frågade Gud varje morgon om de skulle ta filmjölk eller gröt

elsander
elsander 5pts

@helapingsten Han menar att det finns en risk i karismatiska sammanhang att överbetona kunskapens ord så att de blir rena "fortune cookies".

elsander
elsander 5pts

@helapingsten Att Gud är närvarande och att det är naturligt menar du? Apg 17:27 tex.

elsander
elsander 5pts

@helapingsten "Micael remember: There is no such thing as the super-natural. God's work is the most natural thing in the world."

helapingsten
helapingsten 5pts

@elsander Det håller jag inte riktigt heller med om. Naturen är skapad, Gud är oskapad. Hans gärningar står över naturen.

helapingsten
helapingsten 5pts

@elsander Naturlig betyder två saker: skapad och självklar. Guds gärningar är självklara men oskapade, de är andliga.

helapingsten
helapingsten 5pts

@elsander Inkarnarionen handlar om föreningen mellan natur och övernatur, mellan människa och Gud. Det förnekar inte existensen av övernatur

elsander
elsander 5pts

@helapingsten Inkarnationen handlar om det

elsander
elsander 5pts

@helapingsten Det är sant att han är annorlunda men han är inte onaturlig. Gud är det naturligaste som finns när han möter oss människor.

Micael Grenholm
Micael Grenholm 5pts

This is an important issue, when discussing prophecy we should also discuss the silence of God. I don't think this was a good article though, mainly because of the lack of Bible study. Of all the places in the Bible where personal prohecy is used, you discuss none. Not a single one! You should at least have discussed all the occurances of personal prophecy in the book of Acts that leads and guides the Christians in their evangelism. Furthermore, your difference between a "sign (like in the Gospel of John) that points to a greater level of trust and awareness" and a "main go-to mechanism for making our way in the world" cannot, to my knowledge, be found in the Bible. Coming from the Vineyard movement, I haven't experienced so much charismatic misbehaviour as some of you seem to have, and I see this from another perspective. While it is important to discuss the silence of God, we must do it grounded in Scripture. And I think Scripture is very clear with that God may give any information to anyone at anytime as He pleases. He is not restricted by anything. So all the times we don't here Him in important matters cannot be explained with "He doesn't do that anyway". Rather the answer to this lies in understanding the Kingdom, the value of suffering, and the judgement of God. May He bless you! Micael Grenholm, Sweden

willhenderson
willhenderson 5pts

 @Micael Grenholm 

Actually I disagree with your premise on using bible references.  This is why words matter so much & what we mean by them.  To me the kind of personal prophecy that is wreaking havoc on certain segments of the church & for sure on the TV Evangelist airwaves is NOT even in the bible at all.  So there would be none for Bo to quote.

 

Sure there is prophecy & sometimes its personal as in its to one person.  But all of those instances don't even resemble these that I would describe as personal prophecies today.

 

Personally I think the Vineyard has been the center of Charismatic misbehavior.  There is not much redeemable to me in Charismatic circles.  YWAM is the only group I've found that I still have utmost respect for in how they go about things in the Spirit.  We all have the gifts when & If we need them so there is no need for any magic witchcraft conjuring to make anything happen.  We all have access to the Holy Spirit.  Terms that I've rejected are Charismatic & Evangelical because they have so much bad baggage I just don't fit into them at all.  I call myself a Progressive Pentecostal.  The reason I still hang on to that word is that its not a made up name it was simply the Jewish festival where the Holy Spirit first came.  I use it not in its traditional denominational use even though I'm still an Ordained Assemblies of God minister, but rather to express & reclaim the fact that my faith flows from the Spirit  This is the risen Christ IN us :-)

 

Maybe the Vineyard is great in Sweden but man over here in North America I've not seen any positive fruit.  I equate most Charismatic things to witchcraft, spells & superstition.

 

I know God can work powerfully & I know his spirit gifts us whenever we need it & I know faith can move mountains.  But most Charismatics just look for God to fire up the burning bush every sunday.

 

Just had to stand up for Bo ..... I think this article rocks!!!!

Micael Grenholm
Micael Grenholm 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@willhenderson Hi Will! Thanks for your comment. I'm not sure of what teleevangelistic personal prophecy you refer to, but Bo doesn't discuss those above. He argues that you shouldn't wonder why God doesn't tell you about a future car accident or child abuse because "he doesn't work like that". Now, this clearly lacks Scriptural support. What about God telling Philip to meet the Erhiopian, or Paul that he would get imprisoned, or Peter that he would deny Christ? Bo doesn't discuss those passages, nor any other passage concerning personal prophecy. And since I cannot fit in his thesis to the Biblical texts, I would say this is an unbiblical thesis. Experiences of a movement can differ a lot, and there sure is misbehavior in the Vineyard, especially around the Toronto blessing, but be careful tossing around words like witch craft. That's a very serious accussion which I don't think you have much support for. Furthermore, are you including the teaching of John Wimber, Vineyard's founder, when you are saying that it is the centre of charismatic misbehavior? If so, I really recommend you to look him up even more. Invest am hour and a half in seeing this clip - I think you'll be positively surprised: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFE3_jUsIyY God bless you! Micael

Micael Grenholm
Micael Grenholm 5pts

 @BoSanders Hi Bo! Sorry for the late answer.

 

Everything isn't a Bible study, but everything isn't a statement about God either. If I'm making a statement about God that is not found in the Bible or even contradicts the Bible, it sure is a false theological statement. I'm not talking about "using words found only in the Bible", I'm talking about supporting the statement above - that personal prophecy is not a guide to life because this is not how God works - with Scripture. Evidently, you cannot do that. Therefore, I think it is quite clear that this is a false statement. Personal prophecy can and should indeed be a quide to life, we should rely on it just as Jesus never did anything except what the Father told Him to do.

 

Now, the Kingdom has not fully come in its power, we are sinful and cannot fully live a perfect life like Jesus. The Kingdom is already but not yet. That is the reason why we don't hear God al the time, I would say. You cannot solve the problem in stating that "God doesn't work like that" when He evidently did when it came to Jesus.

 

I agree with that we shouldn't ignore other forms of information because of the prophetic, just like we shouldn't dismiss doctors because of healing. And there is Scriptural support for that, Jesus asked people questions and gained information in other ways than asking the Father. Still, I would say that it's wrong to state that God doesn't want to give constant information about things because He doesn't "work like that".

 

Ive comented the rejection of the word supernatural here: http://homebrewedchristianity.com/2012/05/21/what-has-changed-since-i-was-your-pastor/

 

God bless you!

 

Micael

willhenderson
willhenderson 5pts

 @BoSanders  @Micael Grenholm 

One point of clarification is that I don't equate real witchcraft with anything demonic.  Real witchcraft as I have been studying it is simple worship of the earth & speaking words or incantations of blessing, prosperity & life.  The Wiccan creed is "do no harm".  Obviously that probably isn't always followed.  I have a very good friend who is a witch & she has told me some crazy stories.  But there is nothing supernatural or demonic at all.  

 

So when I'm equating Charismatics to Witchcraft I'm simply saying that they are both using words that they feel are powerful & effective to accomplish a certain goal.  Usually of blessing.  The chaos comes because people want power, control or revenge.  My experiences, my friends in both & my experiences with both tell me they are very much the same thing.  One says their words of power are from God or the bible & the other from the earth & other holy books.  Both have the ideal of doing no harm.  Both tend to abuse though rather than bless.

 

My witch friend prays for me all the time.  I'd much rather her pray for me than most of the charismatics I know.  I think the bible is completely irrelevant when it comes to subjective comments.  The bible is a very small part of spirituality.  Only the gospels really are of any real scriptural value.  The old testament is a bunch of stories & myths that are outdated for the most part and the new testament is mostly letters written to churches, not us.  Revelation has already happened.  So most of following Jesus does not include the bible and if we can't climb out of that old mode of worshipping the bible we will never truly find Christ.

BoSanders
BoSanders moderator 5pts

 @Micael Grenholm   @willhenderson thanks for the note. THIS is why I love conversation.  When I am the only one (original post) I have to cover a wide area, but with two other opinions in the room now, I can be more nuanced!  I can contrast my position 

SO Micael: two things  1) not everything is a Bible study. Not everything is a sermon 2) if I only use words found in the Bible , then people think that they already know what they mean.  I would encourage you to be a bit more adventurous.  Either you are being too simple and condensing everything into a one-dimesional mold - or you have so bought into a form that provides you all the answers that you expect that of everything, including a blog post challenging the status quo. 

 

I would not go as far a Will goes. BUT he gives me a great chance to clarify what I am saying! I am talking about abilities that every human has to 'read' people, discern and intuit - that are then amplified by Holy Spirit power.

 

Micael remember: There is no such thing as the super-natural. God's work is the most natural thing in the world.  

Micael Grenholm
Micael Grenholm 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@willhenderson Hi again Will, and thanks for your answer. Well, the problem is that you and Bo claim that the examples he listed above and, in your case, personal prophecy in most Charismatic circles today, is unbiblical without showing it exegeticely. Neither he nor you have explained why all the occurances of personal prophecy in the Scriptures is "different". I can by no means see that they are, especially when the Bible stresses that since God is almighty He is not hindered by anything to do whatever He pleases, except when it goes against the human free will. Furthermore, the statement you and Bo make goes against my experience, since I know of several divine foretellings that match the list above. Just as your statement concerning personal prophecy lacks Scriptural support, so does your statement that many contemporary Charismatics are into witchcraft. As I mentioned, this is a very harsh statement, and I wonder if you actually mean that they are involved with demonic powers? Then let me remind you of Mt 12 - we can and should critizise Charismatic misbehavior, but be very careful in calling miracles among Christians demonic. Now, your main argument seem to be that Charismatics behave similiar to people that practice witchcraft, since they use "different names, words and implications". However, isn't it the source that defines witchcraft rather than the form? The thing that differ between spirits is whether they acknowledge Jesus or not (1 Jn 4:2). Now, to use names and words repeatedly is not exclusively an occult phenomena but a Biblical as well, we are told to pray "in the Name of Jesus", to baptize "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit", to pray the Lord's prayer repeatedly. Finally, I find it quite surprising that you in your first comment said that YWAM was the only good Charismatic group you've found since they teach that everyone has the Holy Spirit and access to all the gifts, but then critisize Wimber because he got the baptism of the Spirit "all wrong". Now, his main point was that we all have the Holy Spirit and access to all the gifts. Every Christian has the Holy Spirit, the baptism equals a filling in which we are empowered, and this has clear Scriptural support. The same word is used in Acts 2:4 as in 4:31. This must mean that there is no difference between the baptism and the filling of the Spirit, and that it can happen several times. If you think the Bible says it differently, please explain how. I've read most of Wimber's books, and listened to hours of his teaching, and never has he discussed women in ministry. So even if I don't agree with him on that point as well, it sure wasn't a major issue for him. Furthermore, it is strange that you ignore his teaching on avoiding Charismatic misbehavior and argue that he set Toronto and other strange Vineyard phenomena in motion. He kicked out the Toronto church from the Vineyard. And he NEVER supported control and manipulation. Again, please look him up a bit more. With these words, I leave the conversation for now. And by the way, if all my text becomes a single paragraph, it isn't intentional - I don't know what causes it. God bless you! Micael

willhenderson
willhenderson 5pts

 @Micael Grenholm  @willhenderson 

I appreciate your input too.  Love to have great conversation.  I really think that the future car accident or child abuse is not the same as those bible passages you mentioned.  We don't need to know anything about the bible to know that God just doesn't work that way.  He doesn't tell us everything.

 

And I don't believe there are passages on personal prophecy in the bible.  There are prophets who speak to individuals but it is no way like the fortune telling we have going on in Charismatic circles today.  I'm not going to make a grandiose statement about everyone, but in my experience many Charismatic circles are simply Christian Witches.  I've studied many books on witchcraft recently & gotten a degree in the bible & been in more charismatic places than Bo.  I have read 5 books on witchcraft lately along with the many I've read on theology before & the 1000's of charismatic meetings I've been at & I think I have great basis to say that many (not all people or groups) in the charismatic movement are indeed doing all the things that Witches do with different names, words and implications.

 

As for John Wimber.  He had the baptism of the Holy Spirit all wrong.  And his view of women in ministry is embarrassing.  Man based denominations are offensive to me & Charismatic man based ones are worse cause they use their personal prophecy & fear to keep the women in place.

 

Wimber was very authentic though & did not like fake stuff to happen.  He was honest about when headings happened & when they didn't.  For this I admire him greatly.  But the movement he started nonetheless led to Toronto and many many many other instances of Charismatic Misbehavior with many pastors using personal prophesy to CONTROL & MANIPULATE.  I have no doubt Wimber would not like some of this now but still he set it in motion and so the Vineyard stands with most other Charismatic groups who look rather ridiculous.

 

Keep living there life in Sweden brother!  Thanks for the thoughtful arguments!!  Very interesting.

helapingsten
helapingsten 5pts

@elsander Artikelförfattaren diskuterar t.ex. inte att kunskapsord används för praktiska råd ganska mycket i Apg. Mer än ett "tecken".

helapingsten
helapingsten 5pts

@elsander Viktig fråga, men artikeln har nästan obefintlig exeges. Skillnaden mellan "sign" och "guide to life" finns knappast i Bibeln.

willhenderson
willhenderson 5pts

As a Progressive Pentecostal I couldn't agree more.  Best presentation I've heard on the dangers of personal prophecy.  One thing you didn't touch on much is how it can be used as a mechanism of control by leaders or those who want to be leaders.  That power struggle & manipulation is tremendously hurtful.

 

I think there needs to be a progressive pentecostal movement that reclaims the significance of the Holy Spirit in our lives but breaks away from the fundamentalism, legalism, manipulation & control that individuals, the establishment & many denominations are making most pentecostals swallow hook, line & sinker!

 

I believe the power of pentecost (the Holy Spirit dwelling in us) is for ALL just as God's grace if for ALL.  I'm tired of there being elites or people who think they have a moral high ground.  Even with our gay & lesbian brothers & sisters ...... why should the power of pentecost & the fullness of the Holy Spirit be denied to them.   That certainly is NOT what God intended.  He came to set us ALL free, fill us with his Spirit & teach us to follow him.  This is both an individual journey but even more so a corporate one.  This Ordained Assembly of God Minister may be in the minority in his denomination but I want you ALL to know I'm on your side!!!

 

GREAT JOB BO!!  You rock!!!

willhenderson
willhenderson 5pts

Oh & FYI, my tolerance for those coming to Christ & being filled with the Holy Spirit is not condoning anything.  In fact I believe fully in the Holy Spirit doing the judging & directing.  I have gotten out of that realm all together!  I fully trust the Holy Spirit to speak, lead & guide my friends no matter where they are coming from or no matter what they are dealing with.

 

When our discipleship becomes about telling them do's & don'ts its all outward in.  I'm for inside out!  Our job is to point them to Christ, tell them about the Holy Spirit and then do life together.  Walk on the journey together, make mistakes together, find out truth together, & love one another.  No true inside out change can come about without the Holy Spirit so how in the world can I be involved in that except to love & walk the journey with them!

 

Sorry for the long posts but I don't do anything short :-)

MarkPhillips
MarkPhillips 5pts

 @willhenderson

 Will, really, did I finally find another AG Ordained brother who believes like I do? Time to do lunch, bro! (I'll start saving now for the airfare...if you'll spring fo lunch).

willhenderson
willhenderson 5pts

 @MarkPhillips sounds good mark ..... i was worried about putting that on there  haha

MichaelCamp
MichaelCamp 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Bo, Great post. Thanks. I've had similar experiences in charismatic churches. People are so enamored with the thought of spiritual gifts they come to expect prophetic/power interventions and even get depressed when they don't. This is the-leader-said-this-should-happen-routinely-to-be-spiritual-but-it's-not-so-what's-wrong-with-me syndrome. They also tend to minimize the others you mention, not so much scripture, but definitely they minimize community, and especially reason. Reason, more than any other, gets the short end of the stick.

 

realdamienparks, Sounds like a fascinating book. What's the title and author?

 

 

realdamienparks
realdamienparks 5pts

 @MichaelCamp 

"When God Talks Back: Understanding the American Evangelical Relationship with God" -T.H. Luhrmann

make sure you check out the NPR interview with the author. it is well worth the 50+min.  the link is listed in my original comment below.

 

 

BoSanders
BoSanders moderator 5pts

 @MichaelCamp You hit the nail on the head! Spiritual Gifts are very important (obviously) but when one (any one) is held above all others ... problems emerge.  Add that to the demand to 'hear a word from God' and the cult of personality temptation in charismatic climates and we have the exact scenario that I am addressing. 

Thanks for writing in - it's nice to trade notes with others who have seen the hazard lights as well.   -Bo 

realdamienparks
realdamienparks 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Bo. 

 

Great post here and I think this is just the starting point of the bigger issue and conversation here. In my opnion the overemphasized notion of a personal relationship has really left the American church without any idea of a communal theology. I recently read this very interesting book and the author seems to do a fair job presenting her experiences without being too judgmental. The book is centered around the idea of the personal relationship with God and the authors experiences in The Vineyard denomination. The author was also recently on NPR being interviewed about her experience. You may have read the book or heard the interview but after reading your post these resources came to mind. Again... great conversation starting post.

 

"When God Talks Back" :  http://amzn.to/JTysmy (book)

NPR interview : http://n.pr/HBIklu

willhenderson
willhenderson 5pts

 @realdamienparks awesome!  I have told Bo before that I believe we have a Frodo system in place.  Everyone is told that God has a special plan for "their" life.  Just like every week God has a special word just for you!  I think Tony Jones is right when he says God's atonement may have been systemic & communal!!  In other words, for ALL.  He said the first thousands years the problem the atonement solved was we were under Satan's rule.  The 2nd thousand years it was substitutionary which only fans the flames on individualism.  He suggest that maybe now in this millennia we are waking up to a systemic/communal atonement.

 

Individualism has been the major fuel on the fire for personal prophecy AND cult of personality that usually follows.

BoSanders
BoSanders moderator 5pts

 @realdamienparks that is an EXCELLENT point.  The individualism that is employed in the American church is a 'foundational' issue here!  Thanks for pointing that out and for the book suggestion.

 

Trackbacks

  1. The Process of Prophecy says:
    June 1, 2012 at 8:25 am

    [...] Process of Prophecy June 1, 2012 by Bo Sanders Leave a Comment I wrote earlier that we need to be careful with developing a dependance on personal prophecy. Q: Why didn’t God tell you the accountant was [...]

  2. Are You Looking For a “Special Word” from God through a Person? Probably Ain’t Gonna Happen. | Rebooted Christian says:
    June 5, 2012 at 5:43 am

    [...] Process of Prophecy June 1, 2012 by Bo Sanders I wrote earlier that we need to be careful with developing a dependance on personal prophecy. Q: Why didn’t God tell you the accountant was [...]

Search

Subscribe via iTunes

 


Support the brew

Return to top of page

Copyright © 2013 ·Delicious Theme on Genesis Framework · WordPress · Log in